Chris Coladonato 0:01
Can’t we think about how we’re working. And that’s a part of well being, you know, well being isn’t just how I take care of myself. That’s a big part of it. But it’s also how we work.

Anne Bibb 0:13
Welcome to unexpected journey, the show where each week top professionals share work wisdom and life lessons about their careers, and what they have learned about human experience in the workplace. I’m your host, and Ben, this week, we have Chris Kola Donato. She is a speaker, coach and founder of connection catalyst, which is a company that helps individuals build more meaningful connections with themselves in the world around them by tapping into the power of nature. Before we begin, don’t forget to subscribe, and leave your comments below. Now, let’s get started.

Anne Bibb 0:56
Hey, Chris, welcome.

Chris Coladonato 0:58
Hi, thanks for having me.

Anne Bibb 1:00
I you know, we’ve known each other for a while, but before you became Chris, the nature based wellness coach.

Chris Coladonato 1:12
Yes. It’s a new era for Chris Coladonato.

Anne Bibb 1:19
you’re like Taylor Swift going on the era’s tour for Chris

Chris Coladonato 1:23
Oh, I like that. Although I don’t think I have that much pull to bring people in. I can aspire to be that.

Anne Bibb 1:30
No, I think that we all find out later, that we have more impact than we think we do.

Chris Coladonato 1:41
100 percent I, even to this day, you know, I talked to people who I knew years ago in different lives, and still seeing impact, but I think you don’t see the impact when you’re right in it. And then the later in life that you get, I think you also start to see, oh, all those little teeny tiny ripples, those actually became bigger waves that made a bigger impact. So it’s, it’s interesting to reflect back on that in my life, when it’s

Anne Bibb 2:17
interesting. Also, when it comes back to you, and you’re like, do you know, and you might not point it out. But in your head, you might be thinking, I actually developed that. And it went out into the world. And now it’s coming back to me. Wild?

Chris Coladonato 2:35
It is. And it’s, it’s interesting even to see in organizations that you’ve left to, you start to hear about things that you did, and the impact they made. And people are talking about them, but not in reference to you. And it’s like, yeah, I did that. How cool is that? It’s still alive. really kind of cool. It is.

Anne Bibb 2:58
And all of that happened because of your passion. And what is really cool about there’s so many cool things about you. But one of the things that I find very cool about you is that you kind of found your passion, through many, many, many years of maybe not that many, many,

Anne Bibb 3:22
through many years of working in one corporate organization, and then took that to pivot and create your own organization. And so I think that it would be really interesting for people to hear how you did that, especially because of where we are in the world today. So how, first of all, what is your passion? And then how did you find it in that way?

Chris Coladonato 3:51
It’s a great question. And it’s one that I thought about a lot, especially as I’ve been making this pivot. So my current passion, because I’m known to have passions that ebb and flow. My current passion is truly helping people tap into the power of nature, to connect more deeply with themselves, as well as the world around them, whether that’s their co workers, their clients, or even just their family or society as a whole. And if you had asked me, heck, even about a year ago, I would have had no clue. I would not have been able to articulate this. But it starts probably 13-14 years ago. And it started when I started working for farmers. 2007 Something like that. I can’t remember exactly. Worked for Farmers Insurance, worked downtown Baltimore. So I was going to drive into an office every day and then about a year after I started it. They laid the department off that I was supporting so I was in town I went development and I did everything from instructional design to facilitation, to strategic work with the group that I was supporting, and they got laid off. And at that moment, there was nobody for me to support in the office. So they offered me to start working remotely. And I had never done that before, was like 2008. And I didn’t know what it meant, but I loved my job. And I said, Sure. And in the beginning of that, I, you know, our organization never really did that. We didn’t have people that really worked remotely at that time. So I didn’t really know how to do it. And I tried the best that I could. But what I found that I was doing was, I was losing sight of boundaries, I no longer had that commute in, where that commute back, you know, I had a hard stop at four o’clock. So I wouldn’t hit the, you know, hour and a half long traffic to get home. I had a defined beginning. So when I would have to leave to get into the office at the right time. And I lost all of that. And I felt chained to my desk. And it wasn’t anything that anyone said or, or it was just me putting it on myself. I lost all these boundaries. And I ended up sitting at my desk all day long, doing my work. And then I was like, I am starting to burn out. A little light bulb went on when my husband came home one day, and I had gone down to start dinner. And then I came back to answer emails. And our corporate offices are in LA and I, I was chiming on somebody at six o’clock at night and email and following up. And my husband comes upstairs and he goes, what are we burning for dinner today. And I had totally forgot I put dinner on like an hour before it came up to check one thing. And that’s when I realized something has to change. And what started for me was I started taking walks in the morning. And in the evening, figuring out those were my new virtual commutes. And as I did that, I started helping other remote employees in our organization at the time. Try virtual commutes from themselves. And we started having conversations within the organization about how do you really work effectively when you’re remote. And as I kept going on these walks, that I would take walking meetings, and I would go outside. And I started realizing it wasn’t just the fact that I had these walk for a meeting, walk in the morning walk in the afternoon. But it was also nature. Something about it made me just calm down. But what it also did is it inspired me I would go when I’d have a problem to work out. And I just let me walk around and just a really slow walk. But I do it on a local trail, we’re lucky enough to live where there’s a ton of local trails. And I found that I would get more ideas, I would find that I just lessen my stress. And I’d feel calmer and more refreshed when I came back to work. So it was a passion that I didn’t even think about until I left my job at farmers about a year or so ago. And I thought well, I’ll just I’ll work in the virtual consultancy world because that’s, you know, my current passion. It’s what I did, I led the future work project for farmers. And I thought, I’m just going to do that because I like that. I’m passionate about helping people work virtually better. And as I got into it, I was like, this feels more like work than I want it to. And I started going back to what are the things that really make a difference in my life? And how can I help others make a difference in their lives? And that’s when I went back to a conversation I had with a friend who said, you know, why don’t you take people out on nature walks, why don’t you help them understand the benefits, especially now, when people are overworked, burned out? Stressed from everything that’s happening on and on in this world? Why don’t you take them out on walks or talk to them about how they can tap into the power of nature. And that’s when a light bulb went on? And here I am a couple of months into it and I am loving every minute of it.

Anne Bibb 9:32
So it sounds like you’re really focused on the employee well being the employee experience side, the employee well being piece of employee experience.

Chris Coladonato 9:45
Yeah. And for me, that’s when I realized, you know, through all my iterations of work, the better care I take the better care I take care of myself. The better I can perform, whether that’s for my family, within my personal relationships, or for my employer. So that employee well being is a cornerstone for everything that happens into a business, whether that is the experience they give to their internal or external clients, whether it’s the productivity they have and how they work as a team member, think about it, if you are running from meeting to meeting to meeting or you’re really harried or you’re stressed out, how are you going to be able to give your best self to your co workers

Anne Bibb 10:39
can’t I’m one, I’m going from meeting to meeting to meeting and in those meetings, often talking about another meeting with let’s be, right, and then, and then in that meeting, we’re talking

Speaker 2 10:55
about action items. And we can’t get to those action items, because we’ve got to go to another meeting or meeting. And so we probably have, and this is just on average,

Anne Bibb 11:11
we probably have anywhere from five to six hours of meetings a day.

Speaker 2 11:19
In corporate, if we’re lucky, sometimes more more. And in every single one of those meetings, there is an outcome. Action Items are request, which means there’s something that you have to do and deliver on a follow up meeting.

Chris Coladonato 11:39
But when do you get time to do that? Because you’re right. And that is not healthy. For the person. It’s not healthy for their family. And it’s not healthy for the business. Because again, they’re sacrificing their well being. And maybe you can do that for a short sprint. I’ve been involved in projects where you just have to get some things done. Yeah, that’s gonna

Anne Bibb 12:11
ask better cop we have to get it done is it’s just for like a week or two, but then it’s different.

Chris Coladonato 12:16
But when it’s for a long, sustained period, nobody can keep that up. This is our new

Anne Bibb 12:22
normal. Yeah. And why

Chris Coladonato 12:27
can’t we think about how we’re working? And that’s a part of well, being, you know, well being isn’t just how I take care of myself. That’s a big part of it. But it’s also how we work, meeting, meeting, meeting meeting meeting. When do you do the work? After work? Okay, well, then, when does that person get to rest? So, can we think about how we work? Do we need all those meetings? Can we work differently? Can we look at workloads, can we look at the type of work people are doing? Is that the right fit for them? And can we look at how they structure their day, how they actually work? How they take care of themselves? Are they actually taking breaks?

Anne Bibb 13:14
How or is there even technology that can be utilized to reduce that digital overwhelm, and that technology stress that is really impacting? I mean, it there was so much that was developed during the pandemic that was well intended. Yes. And it was supposed to help make people’s lives work easier to connect with people to connect with co workers to connect with customers to increase productivity, be able to help us see each other’s faces, which you know, what I have worked for nearly 30 years remotely and I have not worn this much makeup. Since you know, before the pandemic started, it’s wild. But that’s okay. Like my skin is not happy. Totally different conversation.

Chris Coladonato 14:13
Another podcast another time another show.

Anne Bibb 14:15
Going back to technology. Yeah, they’re one that helps with the digital overload versus, you know, hurting it.

Chris Coladonato 14:26
Yeah, and I think so I don’t think there’s a magic bullet. What I think there is similar to a lot of other things is how do we instill those guidelines and best practices, so that we don’t feel overwhelmed? So is it a matter of being really conscious of the channels that we create and the channels that we use? So if we’re in a team’s environment, do we need a channel for everything? What goes public, what goes private? And how are we responding to messages. Think about it. When you put a message into Slack or teams or WebEx chat, is it something that needs to be answered immediately? Do you have notifications turned on? Or is it something that can wait? So really thinking critically about how we’re using the tools? And helping people understand when to use what tool? So does it always need to be a video meeting? There is such a thing as just a phone call?

Anne Bibb 15:32
Oh, my gosh, what?

Chris Coladonato 15:34
I know, I know, it’s hard to remember those days. Just pick up the phone.

Anne Bibb 15:42
But even even whenever it is a group meeting, you don’t have to be on camera. No, not like it’s not a requirement. It’s not

Chris Coladonato 15:55
a requirement. And how many times have you been in a meeting? And people are either on camera or off? But yet, you know, they’re working on other things, whether you can see them going like this? Oh, yes, me. So that’s a piece of it, too. You don’t have to be on camera, but you do have to be in the meeting, which means letting go of everything else. So again, it’s not that it’s not that the technology is bad. But we don’t have to one use all the technology and two, we just have to use it the right way.

Anne Bibb 16:34
Now, is that a situation of technology or just poor meeting planning and overloading and you know, why? Why honestly, would that person be multitasking? If they really were needed in that meeting, or if the meeting were only 15 minutes, just like get shit done, and then get on with their lives?

Chris Coladonato 17:01
It’s not the technology’s fault. It’s the way we’re using the technology and or it’s the culture that we have, which means you’re in a back to back to back meeting, when are you going to get work done Oh, during the meeting, because you don’t want to stay later. Or it’s, we’re having an hour long meeting, when to your point, it only needs to be 15 minutes. And oh, by the way, when you have back to back to back to back meetings, whenever those people actually get up and go to the bathroom, get something to

Anne Bibb 17:33
eat. And they’re not allowed to stand up and stretch like that. Isn’t that why standing desks were invented. So we didn’t have to let people leave any more. I laugh, but kind of true, it goes back to that video you’re sent. Okay, just because you have a standing desk doesn’t mean you can’t leave your desk, I implore you to walk away from the desk a couple times a day. It’s funny, but it’s sad at the same time, because I think some of the things that we’ve invented standing desks, the walk pad, so that we can continue to get exercise and not leave our desk. You know, we are building things in our society to allow the behavior to continue, continue. That’s exactly it, but still maintain our health.

Chris Coladonato 18:24
And the problem is, again, none of these things are bad. I love my standing desk, I have one that I could say about down love it. But it’s how I use it. So as we bring in these tools, and during the pandemic, we were just let’s throw every tool out there. And yes, we needed it to survive, because there was a lot of companies that they had never done this before. But yet we’re still using those bad behaviors. We’re not questioning, how should we really be using it? And we’re not looking at, oh, all those meetings, oh, that might be causing some of the burnout, some of the turnover. People are leaving, because they don’t have time to think and do their job because they’re in meetings all day long.

Anne Bibb 19:13
You were actually not over just the future of work, strategy and farmers you lead the hybrid team. And so one of the things I find very interesting is that when people are talking about hybrid, that word in and of itself is just very, ever changing in its definition. Back when Sasha Connor was on we had this whole conversation about is it location is the type of learning is it you know, what exactly is hybrid in the workplace? And so I’m curious, you know, how you define hybrid in the workplace and really How does it differ from remote or in person work?

Chris Coladonato 20:05
So for me, you know, I think of hybrid is, is it’s going to be evolving for a while just like remote, in its early days, meant one thing, it was more like telework, I think hybrid is going to be the same way. But for me, hybrid is a hybrid of working in a different location. So working remotely, whether that’s at home or co working, or wherever, and working in a office that is, the organization has. So working at an organizational office, I don’t think it is a set days or anything like that, I think it is simply I choose to blend my worlds. And I work some time in a remote location and some time in a office location.

Anne Bibb 20:56
So by that definition, that does mean that you would have to be within a certain area of a specific office.

Chris Coladonato 21:07
Yes, unless hybrid could mean I go into one of our major hubs every couple of months and spend a week there. That could be two. So I might live in Maryland. But yet our hub is in Columbus, Ohio. And I go and spend a week there on a regular basis. And that’s the other thing. To me, hybrid is a regular basis. So you are regularly going between whether regularly means once a month or once a quarter. It is a reoccurring regular theme doesn’t mean has to be the same week to week. It’s just regular. But I think for somebody who truly desires a hybrid environment, meaning they do their best work when they have a little bit of time, away from the office and a little bit of time in the office, because that’s what they like and enjoy, then I think they are living closer to an office where they could commute in on a regular basis.

Anne Bibb 22:14
How do you think that the pandemic impacted that shift towards hybrid? And you know what, I’m just going to leave the question there then. Like I had a second part of the question, but let’s just stop there. I’ll ask the other part in just a second. Oh, no, I

Chris Coladonato 22:30
can’t stop thinking about what the other part is. Okay. Wow. I felt before the pandemic. It was either office or work from home and not even there wasn’t a lot of conversation about remote because remote doesn’t equal work from home. So you had a lot of people here, you’re they’re working from home, or they were working in the office, there’s like these two camps. And then you had some that were the true digital nomads and working in many different locations are truly remote. When the pandemic hit, then the pendulum swung all the way over to remote, but it was forced remote, it was forced to work from home because we were all in a lockdown situation. And that’s when people started going, Ah, I never thought I was 100% office. And now I’m like, Oh, now I can do this. I like this. And then as restrictions started easing up, then I think you had some people who were like, but I liked going into the office. Once in a while. I like getting out of my I do too. I don’t work from my house, every single day, I go to a library, I go to a co working space. Or I’ll work out of a cafe on a regular basis because I need that hum, I need to hear that noise. I need other people around me even if they have nothing to do with me. I just like to feel that energy. And I think you had a lot of people who are like, Ah, now that’s not taking into consideration the organizations that are mandating and thinking that you need to be in person in order to effectively work. That’s a whole nother conversation. But I think you have a lot of people realizing okay, I don’t want to be home the entire time. What are my options, and I like being able to blend those things so I can get out of my house. And I don’t have to be here day in and day out.

Anne Bibb 24:43
So removing that forced Return to Work conversation from them. That’s,

Chris Coladonato 24:47
that’s a completely different situation than to me true hybrid is a choice. I choose to work in multiple locations. And, and one of those locations is my office.

Anne Bibb 25:04
So can you provide any examples of successful hybrid workplaces and what strategies they might have used to maintain employee engagement and connection?

Chris Coladonato 25:15
Oh, I think that’s, we’re still, I think there are a few examples, putting me on the spot, trying to think. But I think we’re still in the beginning stages of true hybrid, where we’re still seeing a lot of remote, or office. And by that, I mean, we’re seeing a lot of events that are either office first or remote. First, it’s really hard to blend the two, it’s really hard to have a truly good hybrid event, it is hard. And I will be the first to admit I’ve been a virtual facilitator for a very, very long time. And even I have trouble facilitating a hybrid event. So I won’t

Anne Bibb 26:12
do it, I’m either I’m in person, it’s our or about I won’t do hybrid. It’s just it’s,

Chris Coladonato 26:18
it’s too difficult. No matter how many co facilitators and CO producers you have, and advocates in the other. It’s there’s just a complexity there. But I think that the organizations that really focus on how they work, and again, having that infrastructure for the connections that they’re making are not location dependent. So a lot and a lot of those companies are truly remote companies that do come together from time to time. Now, I know that farmers who I worked for before, was starting to get really good at trying to understand, okay, what really needed to get done in the office? And are there opportunities to bring people together in the office. But then there’s always the wrinkle of the what if somebody is too far away to come into the office. So as I was leaving, those were some of the things that they were wrestling with. And I don’t know, if those are things that they’ve overcome or solved for yet, I think it goes back to how can we ensure that everyone is included. And if that means that the event that we thought we could do in the office has to be done virtually, then that’s the way it is. So think about it, this way meetups, you know, a meetup can be done as a networking, virtual networking event on Zoom, or WebEx. Or it can be done in person, if the bulk of the group is in person. But I think it’s being really mindful of that, and ensuring that people have those opportunities to connect. So whether that is at the start of your team meeting, whether it’s in person or virtual, you have an opportunity to just connect us people and have snippets of conversation, just like you would if you were walking into the hall walking in from the hallway into a meeting and you’re chit chatting. Same is true, you need to give people those opportunities. So I think the best organizations that are gonna get really good at it are thinking that way. And when they have a situation where everyone is not included, then they either double down and they do one in person and they do one virtual, or they shift to the way that everybody can be included, which usually means all virtual. Not sure if that answered your question or not?

Anne Bibb 29:00
Well, it kind of did. But along those lines of the team members and I I’m seeing a lot

Speaker 2 29:14
of talk about agreements for hybrid. And I’m curious of what your thoughts were, and potentially your approach to the utilization of Team agreements and personal user manuals when working with hybrid work and hybrid teams.

Chris Coladonato 29:32
So I’m a fan of those regardless of how you work. So if you are all in on person in person, or if you’re all remote or your hybrid. What I think it does is it takes the ambiguity out and it forces you as a team to have a conversation. I know that when I worked in an office, there was a lot of unwritten rules. I didn’t know All the unwritten rules, somebody had made up the rules before I got there, and I kind of came

Anne Bibb 30:03
and never happens, Chris, that never happens, especially in my world. You’re not in corporate, there are never unwritten rules in corporate.

Chris Coladonato 30:15
So that’s why I think it’s great. It just forces the team. They don’t have to be complex. But it’s really about how do we work? And how do we work best? And what are those systems look like? So if you’re in an office, we utilize this team whiteboard for our schedules, and we check in with a daily stand up. If you’re all remote, what does that look like? And if you’re hybrid, what does that look like? So I think they’re a great idea, regardless of how you work, I think it takes the ambiguity out it forces the conversation. But the key is, is it something that gets revisited. And it’s a great tool to use when you have new hires? You bring somebody on board? One, they have an easy snapshot to look at. But then they can also offer their perspective. Hey, have we thought about this? So that’s why I like them, because they give you a jumping off point. So that you can be more effective instead of everybody just kind of doing their own thing enforces the conversation.

Anne Bibb 31:26
Yeah. As fun as that is, it does make a little chaotic.

Chris Coladonato 31:30
It does. And, and I think it leads to it can lead to resentment, it can lead to less productive work, because you might be doing things double time or, you know, duplicating efforts. So I think it’s just worth having a conversation not being overly prescriptive. But just you know, what are those key things that we need to agree on? It could be something as simple as we’re going to use Google Docs for this type of communication and email for this type of communication. That can clear up so many things, because if I get another reply on email, oh, Lord.

Anne Bibb 32:18
There needs to be a function on reply. All that says, Are you sure you want to reply?

Chris Coladonato 32:24
Yes, a default.

Anne Bibb 32:25
Such a small little add on to Outlook, Google, all of them. All of us. Just say, Are you sure? Like in big 652 people on this reply all? Are you sure Show?

Chris Coladonato 32:44
Big Red? Please. Both

Anne Bibb 32:47
Microsoft Google plays We are begging, we’re just

Chris Coladonato 32:50
we’re just asking for a friend.

Anne Bibb 32:55
Where do you see the future of hybrid work evolving as we get to? While we’re not at the end of the pandemic, we’re really kind of withering down. So post pandemic, where do you see the future of hybrid work? Going?

Chris Coladonato 33:15
Who great question. I think it’s going to and my hope is that it is not a prescriptive world. So it is a flexible world, that hybrid is truly what it was designed to do, which is gives employees flexibility to work in the way they want to work. Not the you must be in the office two days a week, you must be in the office three days a week, and they have to be the same day. Now you as a team may decide, okay, we’re gonna come together on Mondays, if we’re all co located, we’re in the same geographical area. But I think right now, we’re not there. And right now, we have a lot of people that are still hesitant about, you know, do I want to go in an office with other people. So I think post pandemic, you’re truly going to see a world where people have the choice. And then they have the systems built in. Whether it’s I can see where there’s a open office space, so we don’t have a sign desks anymore. So the office spaces have these systems built in where people can go in and see where can I work today? And what are those areas that are free so all of those systems are in place. And people have the flexibility to be able to do it. And it’s not a mandate it so many days, all in the office in the same day. What is

Speaker 2 34:47
your advice to individuals that are watching and you know, they heard your story about connecting with nature focusing on your well being Seeing how it impacted you. And they’re like, I probably need to focus on my own well

Anne Bibb 35:05
being, but I feel like I’m stopped. I don’t know how to start it don’t know where to do it. What is your advice for that individual?

Chris Coladonato 35:14
Right now? Take some time to reflect. And really think about, Okay. What is it that is frustrating me the most. So is it I don’t have a fixed and time. And I seem to be working later. And later and later, is it I just seem to be working all day long, no breaks. And pick that one thing. Just one to get started. For me, it was bookending, my day, had a morning commute and an evening commute that I did by leaving my office closing the laptop, shutting everything down. I mean, I lived in an age where I had a phone, a desk phone, and I covered it up with a piece of fabric. So I wouldn’t see it ring up by now. Because we didn’t have these fancy dancy things called cell phones, or Skypes, or any of that. But that’s what worked for me. So what’s the one thing that gives you the biggest frustration that you’re like, if I could just do this? And then do that, build that into your day, whether it is a I’m going to start work at this time. And before then I’m going to take a 15 minute walk, or I’m going to color for 15 minutes, or I’m going to listen to a podcast for 15 minutes. We

Anne Bibb 36:35
know what one, huh? We know a good one.

Chris Coladonato 36:39
I’m not sure what its name is. So you know, start there. And then when that becomes alright, this seems to be working. What’s the next thing? Is it I need to take a break during the day or I need to take a real lunch, get away from your desk, get away from Tech, and do something for you. Maybe eat your lunch and just read a book.

Anne Bibb 37:07
Unplugging has a really big impact on a lot of people

Chris Coladonato 37:12
does. And you know, it’s interesting, I was having this conversation with somebody else where I tend to unplug but then I plug something into my ears. So I unplug from all the tech but yet I’m listening to an audiobook or a podcast. And sometimes what you need is just that silence. And not all of these inputs and information coming in and and just let your mind just wander Look at the clouds. Wow, when’s the last time you just looked up and saw what shapes are in the clouds? I used to love that as a kid.

Anne Bibb 37:48
I did too. And I can’t answer that question. Because I can’t remember.

Chris Coladonato 37:52
And why not? I mean, it does so many beneficial things. So everything from you’re not staring at a screen with all of this text and all of these things. Give your eyes a break and just look out, gaze is far away. Check out the clouds. Maybe you see something maybe you don’t. But it’s finding that one thing and then finding that one thing that works for you. Maybe for you a virtual commute is not the answer. Maybe for you it is listening to our podcast, Maybe for you it’s closing the door at or keeping the door closed before you leave your office for the day. So you have some you time. Or maybe it’s running outside of your house because you don’t have a dedicated home office and getting away from everybody before you spend family time. So there’s no one right answer. But the thing is, is to find the thing that’s frustrating the most and just try one thing, even if it’s for five minutes, I held a both hands. So maybe it’s 10 minutes.

Anne Bibb 38:56
Nobody was counting.

Chris Coladonato 39:00
It seems like yeah, just start with one thing. Or 10 Or

Anne Bibb 39:08
So, Chris, why would somebody reached out to you and how would they reach out to you?

Chris Coladonato 39:16
So if you’re somebody who says, Yeah, I kind of see what you’re saying. I know I need to figure out how I can unplug so I can lower my stress and anxiety a little bit, but I’m not quite sure how to do it. That’s when you’d reach out to me. I offer nature walks both virtual and in person for individuals and groups and teams. But I also come in and speak to organizations about how they can disconnect to reconnect, how they can use nature, whether that is taking time to look at the clouds and keep staring at the clouds because we have some really big puffy ones out there today. as to how maybe you can bring plants in and how that helps you. There’s a lot of science that’s becoming more and more well known and well researched about the benefits of nature, and the things that you can do to take advantage of those benefits. So that’s why people would reach out to me, and they can easily find me by going to connection, where they’ll find more information about what I do. And then if you’re hanging out on Instagram or on LinkedIn, you can find me at the connection catalysts I post in both of those locations.

Anne Bibb 40:36
And all of those links are below for those of you watching on YouTube. And if you’re listening. Well, I’m glad that she actually said where to go. So Chris, thank you so much for joining us. Always enjoy our conversations had a blast. And for everybody who joined us this week, thank you so much. And we will see you again next week. As we wrap up the episode we would like to take this time to thank you for joining us this week on unexpected journey. Our guest information will be linked in the episode description along with a link to our hosts website, and and our sponsors websites, remote, ethos, and your Please don’t forget to like, subscribe and share on your favorite podcast app and on our YouTube channel so that you never miss an episode and we can continue to bring them to you. Let us know your thoughts on what we discussed in the comment section. And once again, thanks for joining us. We hope to see you again next time on Unexpected Journey


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