Eugina Jordan 0:00
If we don’t fight microaggressions now, when we have the power-when we are in a position of power, then the generation that comes after us still going to experience them. So yes, ladies, it is hard, but someone has to do it.

Anne B 0:18
Welcome to Unexpected Journey Season Two. I’m your host Anne Bibb. Today we welcome Eugina Jordan to the show. Eugina is a seasoned marketing visionary with over two decades of experience. She’s the Chief Marketing Officer for telecom infra project. And she’s the author of UNLIMITED: The 17 Proven Laws For Success in a Workplace Not Designed For You. Eugina is also an inventor, she holds 12 patents that include 5g and open ran. listen in to hear more about her unexpected journey. Before we begin, don’t forget to subscribe and leave your comments below. Now let’s get started. Hi, Eugina.

Eugina Jordan 1:09
how you doing?

Anne B 1:12
Welcome to the show.

Eugina Jordan 1:13
Thank you. Thank you so much. I’m excited to be on the show.

Anne B 1:17
I am so excited. We’ve known each other for a while now. I think that two years now. We met through chief and then we built a remote friendship. I can’t wait to actually meet you in person and give you a big hug. But we chat all the time. It’s great. It’s so nice. And one of these friendships that we’ve we’ve built a relationship through chief, we talk on WhatsApp, we talk on LinkedIn. We’ve talked on the phone and and now we’re talking on a podcast. Yeah, yeah. And

Eugina Jordan 1:51
it’s all intentional. Once you meet a good person, you want to continue that relationship and develop it.

Anne B 1:59
One of the neatest things that has happened to us since we started our friendship is that you became a published author.

Eugina Jordan 2:13
Yes, I did. Here’s my baby. My second baby. Oh,

Anne B 2:23
I remember when you were just talking about. And you were talking about writing it. And then when you announced that it was done, and the whole process, it was such a neat thing. And to know, Eugina, the individual that worked her way up and became the C suite, the CMO individual. But nowEugina, the published author. I mean, you’re so many things, your mom, your wife, you’re a CMO, you’re an advocate for immigrants. You’re so many things, and now an author on top of that. And this is a remarkable book. I would love for you to share with people. One what, what inspired you to tell your story.

Eugina Jordan 3:19
What inspired me to tell my story is during covid. I’ve read probably 50 in those three months when we were locked down probably 50 leadership books. I was at home I was working from home I was not traveling. So I wanted to keep my mind busy preoccupied. And as I put down book number 50, I realized that majority of those books, leadership books were written by men, and obviously, for men. And there was nothing wrong with those books. Don’t get me wrong. They are leadership classics. I asked myself a question what do those authors know about how to become a leader when you’re an immigrant, when you female, or when you’re a person of color? They were not talking to me they were talking to people like them. And that’s how the idea for that book was born. And then I think a year later, now we’re talking 2021 I was doing a speaking engagement for under served communities in LA. And I told my story, girl from Russia from a very poor environment. We didn’t even have enough money sometimes to buy dinner, where to borrow it from the neighbors moved to Canada, then ended up on the interruption a very abusive marriage started as a reset. finest in the industry and worked her way up to the sea level. And when I told that story, I saw sparkle in their eyes. And they were saying, oh my god, I can be you. And then the young lady, African American lady came to me after the talk, she held my hand tight. And she said, You need to write the book, you were talking about writing a book. So write that book. And I made a promise to her. And that’s why I wrote the book because I made a promise to a girl like me, that wanted something bigger and needed those resources.

Anne B 5:43
And I want to delve into a few specifics in the book. But why? Why the 17 laws?

Eugina Jordan 5:51
17 laws. So I was trying to somehow structure what I heard from my interviewees, because I interviewed about 30 underrepresented leaders across different industries, pharma, finance, sports, read a lot of research for the book. So I was trying to capture it in three sections. So the first section is what an individual needs to do themselves, self awareness, learn how to negotiate, learn about weaknesses, their own weaknesses, strengths. Then the second one is it takes a village, it’s not your networking, finding mentors and sponsors. And the last one is for people like you and I, when we have a platform is to use use that platform to bring more people like us. So and it turned out to be 17. So all those 17 principles that help people like me and underrepresented, an immigrant, to become a C level executive.

Anne B 7:06
So many of and I’m gonna say us, because I may be a woman. And I may have a lot of things that I would say 1015 years ago, I would have considered myself as someone that fell into specific categories. Over the last five or so years, there has been a lot of awakening, a lot of education that has come out that it’s helped me personally, and I hope many others to see the privilege is real. Right? The the I personally know how much I see that I am entitled, I haven’t I have entitlement. That said, there are things that I think that many of us don’t really realize that a lot of other people have to deal with. And you’re calling some of them out. There’s a term that you use, and you try to explain micro aggressions. And I know that you have personally even had to deal with this. And I know many of my friends and partners have had to deal with this. And I’d love for you to explain just maybe some people that are watching and listening that don’t understand that term. Em why why is this such a hurtful thing? To people?

Eugina Jordan 8:53
Yeah, yes, and microaggressions a lot of African American people in women, they experienced them as well. And it’s especially how they look how they sound. They’re here. So I experienced micro aggressions because of my accent or being a Russian immigrant. So in people make jokes in in, they compare me to villains that normally Russians are portrayed or they make relevance to cartoons. And to them, it’s funny. To me, sometimes it’s hurtful. So what I’ve learned is to ask, Did you mean this comment to be helpful or hurtful? And I take it I take it as an opportunity to educate that sometimes people that don’t sound don’t play Look, or don’t come from places like them, those people, it might not be helpful to make those comments. And again, it’s you need to separate because those sometimes microaggressions people don’t mean them, they I still hurtful and experienced a microaggression when I was in the same very blazer pink blazer at a conference, and a gentleman that was sitting next to me, and we had a casual chat was trying to mansplain to me, 5g and open RAM, and I have 12 patents on those technologies. So when my turn came to talk, I told him that he didn’t need to spell those acronyms because I was the one that created the whole category. And educating him in that case, he was open to listening. And people really took it as a lesson. And he’s probably not going to assume anymore that a lady in a pink blazer is a dead sea or whatnot. And it’s, it’s hard. So I think in my book, I talk about two things. The first thing is me, many people come to you or me and they say, Oh, my God, it’s like, it didn’t happen to you like you assists sweet person and you know, expense the microaggression? Yes, we did. We just had to decide which one to fight against, and which one to sweep under the rug. Because even our presence at the table was a threat to the system. So that’s is number one. And number two, is if we don’t fight microaggressions. Now, when we have the power when we are in a position of power, then the generation that comes after us still going to experience them. So yes, ladies, it is hard, but someone has to do it.

Anne B 12:25
And it is hard. And I guess somebody that’s listening right now isn’t in a position of power. But they are experiencing these micro aggressions. They might not even realize that’s what was happening. Because I can tell you, I was recently sitting in a room with individuals, and I watched somebody else be on the receiving end of micro aggressions. And it was sad, fascinating, but sad to watch how this individual just let it happen. Because they didn’t know that’s what was happening. It was just their way of life of oh, this is what it is. This is how it is this there. This is how I have to put up with things. So I guess what I’m asking you is? How does an individual come to realize this is just not how everything has to be you don’t have to be treated this way. You don’t have to be spoken to this way. And then how do you overcome it and address it?

Eugina Jordan 13:52
Good question. Let’s unpack it. Because if early on in my career, I didn’t realize that those Russian jokes or people making fun of my accent, they weren’t microaggressions you learn so and to learn what is micro aggression, what is good and what is bad. You need to have a mentor. So I would encourage every single person to get a mentor. So they can run those situations by your mentor. Me to movement. There was things happening to me, I was a single mother and there were people coming into my queue when you know asking me to come to dinner and they were co workers and again, I didn’t know what was appropriate what what was not appropriate. So it’s partnering with the person that you can trust, creating that psychological safety and then asking Is that normal? Because many underrepresented individuals, we don’t know what’s normal in the corporate world? If our parents immigrants, for example, or if our parents people of color, they never worked in the corporate world, they don’t know what’s normal and what’s not. So find someone who knows what’s normal and what’s not. And then once you realize what’s normal,

Anne B 15:29
what should it be normal, right, because even a person of color, so many years, they had to do their hair a certain way, because that’s what was considered normal because they were forced to do it a certain way. They don’t have to tattoos in the workplace, were never considered normal, and now they’re being accepted makeup a specific way, was never considered normal if they had to be done a certain way. And now it is more much more accepted, how we wear our hair, how we dress, what is considered normal by certain standards, does it have to be that way? Business Casual was never accepted in the 80s. But in the 90s, we were able to start dressing a little bit more comfortably being business casual, and now in the 2000s. People wear jeans and business jackets to work, because that is the new normal. So what is normal? And should it be normal? How do we break that misconception? Or conception? What have you have? What is normal? Because to your point, these individuals thought those micro aggressions were normal and okay, but they aren’t. And even more importantly, the individuals doing it. Thought it was okay. So making that change.

Eugina Jordan 17:04
Exactly. It’s educating those individuals, and some of them will be open to make the change. Some of them will be apologizing and saying thank you very much for bringing this to my attention. And some of them won’t. So what I normally tell people, find individuals that will be open to change, and adjust and treat everyone as humans, and the ones that don’t want to adjust them still, when I say them, they’re all the ugly ways. Let them be.

Anne B 17:44
And that ties into one of the laws that you talk about the law of choice. And there are a few things in here. Under the law of choice, the choice of the individual that is on the receiving end, and the choice of the individual that is actually doing the action. So the choice of the individual that is on the receiving end, you have to choose how you’re going to address the situation. Is this a battle for you? Or is it a war? Is this a battle you’re willing to say I’m not going to fight this battle? Because the longer term war is more important for me? Or is this the battle that you’re willing to fight?

Unknown Speaker 18:38

Anne B 18:39
you know what, I’m tired today is not the day. I need to let this one go. Because I have bigger battles to fight. Are you going to find it? The vegetable, this particular individual is somebody that you feel you can have a big impact with this particular individual. They might be willing to make a different choice, they might be willing to hear you and listen and understand that there is in fact a choice to be made. So I’m interested to understand now we did you do talk about different types of mentalities. But I’m interested to understand the conversations that you had that led to the law of choice.

Eugina Jordan 19:35
So the law of choice was inspired by one of my bosses. When I came to him, and I was saying, someone took a piece of my work and they were sending it around as theirs. And the person looked at me and it was a guy and he said you Gina, don’t act as if victim, if someone stole your work, you go in you confront them, it’s up to you. You can spend the time sitting in my office and complaining, or you can go and fight that battle. And it’s actually I am to all my mentees, when they come to me, and they say, Oh, I’m stuck right now. And I am, I’m not getting promotions, they tell me what this is. And I am feeling sad and ice. And I always tell them, you have a choice. It said that you stay stuck. You feel sad, or you get yourself unstuck. It’s your choice. With that individual to continue, you know, the story. I went to him, and I said, Did you mean to send that around without giving me a credit, because it was my work. And the person apologize. I’m not sure if it was done intentionally or not. And then he’s never done it again. So the law of choice is, you have a choice how you’re going to react in a particular situation, and especially when it’s a very negative situation. And you can either sit and cry, or you can take control of your destiny and address it.

Anne B 21:32
Love that. And choice. I think the law, like we said, the law of choice goes in so many. I mean, we could talk about the law of choice for the entire show. There are so many things that are actual choices, the choice to get up in the morning, the choice to have a good day, the choice to not let something take you down. There are just so many things there, too, that you make a choice on every single day. So the law of choice is a really big one that could that could have been your whole book. I mean, really.

Eugina Jordan 22:07
And maybe right because I’m toying with

Anne B 22:14
you now I couldn’t be far too. So we’re talking a lot about your book, want to take this time to give everybody an opportunity to get to know the inner thoughts. And then a little bit more about you, Gina. And I know you watch the show. For our regulars. Everybody’s familiar with this or that. And how we play it for those who aren’t regulars is we get to words or phrases. And then Eugene and I both have to pick one or the other. We can’t say neither, we can’t say both. We have to pick one or the other. So you didn’t Are you ready?

Eugina Jordan 22:56
Let’s do it.

Anne B 22:58
Let’s do it. All right. So the first this or that phrase that we get to pick from Rs. Rs Rs. I’m having a problem talking to I need more coffee. There we go. And here is polar bear. Okay, this is interesting polar bear or penguin.

Eugina Jordan 23:20
Oh, definitely polar bear. They’re so cuddly and so sweet. They might may have dogs and the dog is my favorite animal.

Anne B 23:31
So this is random for me. Like I mean, well, obviously, the whole game is random. I’m gonna go with polar bear also. But I’m gonna go for an entirely different reason. Recently, I saw a picture of a polar bear. It was a beautiful art picture. And it was a polar bear sitting on a bit of ice. And I think it was called you know, I sped it is it is a picture that this artists took. I think it was in a competition and because that’s sticking in my mind. I’m gonna go with polar bear. So that is why I have no other reason. I don’t dislike pain points. I think they’re cute. There’s a whole movie about them, but they’re sticking in my mind. So All right, next one we’ve got Oh, hot air ballooning or paragliding? This is one I would probably pick neither on but here we go. Yeah.

Eugina Jordan 24:41
So maybe we can skip it.

Unknown Speaker 24:45
That’s not the rules of the game. We have to pick one

Eugina Jordan 24:47
way executive women we can make the rules.

Anne B 24:54
If I have to pick one, I think I think I’ll go with hot You’re ballooning because maybe they still have to keep the thing tied to the ground there’s

Eugina Jordan 25:09
yes that’s my hope that’s why I’m picking it yes hot air ballooning baby I’ll survive

Anne B 25:16
and they didn’t do anything isn’t saying that we have to go hot air ballooning across the country just hot air ballooning so I’m just gonna say in my mind that I’m still tied to the ground that’s that’s where there we go. All right. And the last one is gardening or beekeeping

Eugina Jordan 25:45
gardening so though I you know, I don’t have any green thumbs and probably it will all die. But bees scared the crap out of me.

Anne B 25:55
See, I’m pretty torn on this one. I really like honey.

Eugina Jordan 26:00
Yeah, but bees bite.

Anne B 26:04
Oh, they sting. They don’t bite. Are they okay?

Eugina Jordan 26:06
Stingley. So and then you blow up? Yeah, no. And I would certainly if my son is allergic to bees, he actually had anaphylaxis. He was bitten and that’s how we found found out that he is deadly allergic to bees. Okay,

Anne B 26:21
so your son can’t do beekeeping but you can now,

Eugina Jordan 26:32
no, no, I’d rather get my hands dirty.

Anne B 26:35
Okay, how about I do beekeeping. You do gardening, and I’ll trade you vegetables for honey. Sounds like a plan. Actually a little iffy on the beekeeping. I’ve done gardening before. And I was only successful at tomatoes. But I’m willing to try the beekeeping if I might get honey. And supposedly Honey, if you’re doing it in your area has a lot of great qualities. Because you’re you’re getting that pollen from your area, and it reduces allergies. I want to give it a shot. You’re like, that’s great for you. I’m staring Yeah, but are you not coming to visit now? And thank you. All right, well, there’s a little bit about Eugenia, she is a lot less adventurous than some of our guests. But that’s okay, because we can go over to her house for some good vegetables, stay on the ground in a hot air balloon and play with the polar bear and play with a polar bear. So we were talking about a lot of things that you mentioned at the beginning of the show, tied into mentorship. And you cover that in your book, mentorship, networking, mentorship, and you actually have the law of mentorship and sponsorship. What is the difference between mentorship and sponsorship?

Eugina Jordan 28:19
Good question. So mentor is someone who can help you become better at your personal qualities or professional qualities. But sponsor is going to support you in your career. sponsor is the one that’s going to give you opportunities on mention your name in the room where you’re not present. So again, you can get those opportunities for growth. Both important. But if I had to pick one mentor over sponsor, I would always go for sponsor, because an individual can mentor themselves it called self mentoring with books and podcasts and YouTube and whatnot. But an individual cannot magically appear in their own and speak up for themselves and ask for a promotion or an interesting project. So if you have to choose choose a sponsor under sponsorship.

Anne B 29:25
You know, it’s funny you say that because I was somebody sent me a meme the other day, which my kids would be so proud of me. You know what I mean is Mom Yeah. But it was make sure that you are something along the lines of I may know what a meme is, but I can’t remember what it said. But make sure that you are around people that will sit not talk behind your back. But say your name when you’re not in the room and If that’s what you were just talking about, we want to lift each other up, not put each other down. We want to talk positively and encourage other people to know the good things about us, even when we’re not there. And that’s not just a women thing that’s across the board thing. There is just too much backstabbing, negativity and hate in the world right now, we need to have each other’s back and make sure that we’re lifting each other up, mentoring sponsoring, and making sure that the next generation is going to make sure that we’re still here to survive. Right now, there is a lot more of them than there are of us. And they need growth in leadership and mentorship. Because they’re who are going to be bringing this country, this world, everything this universe through to the future.

Eugina Jordan 31:10
Yet success is not a pie.

Anne B 31:14
I love that. I love that. So when you’re thinking about your mentorship, sponsorship, how do you go about one, finding an individual and to knowing that it’s the right one.

Eugina Jordan 31:38
So let’s start with sponsors. Sponsorship is not given sport, you need to earn this sponsorship. And sometimes it takes years to earn that sponsorship. So you’re giving an opportunity. And it happened to me when I was a receptionist and Administrative Assistant Executive Assistant Chief of Staff, and I wanted to move into marketing. So I asked my boss, to let me go and sponsor me in that new role. And because I’ve proven myself for six years, he said, absolutely. So find that sponsor within your organization, and make yourself helpful and useful to that person, make their life easier. For mentors, I’m gonna give an opinion of a mentor people which to me all the time to be mentored by me. And we get on a call. And I give them i, we see if we’re a match. And if when I say potential match, I give them homework. And I say, here’s the homework for you read this book or read this article, and then reach out to me. And we’ll talk more about the next steps. Because I cannot want it more to be mentored than the mentee itself. And 50 50% people never reach out because they realize they don’t want it as much. So if you ask someone to be your mentor, be prepared to do the work, and be prepared to want to become better than your mentor.

Anne B 33:33
Be prepared to do the work. I can’t tell you how many times and it sounds like you’re in the same boat. I’ve been available to help that individual. And they don’t show up for the calls. They don’t take the feedback. They don’t do the work that we talk about and then come prepared, prepared to have the conversations. You and I have been in this in business for a long time. We

Eugina Jordan 34:12
have three years to prove it right.

Anne B 34:15
To prove it. We’ve seen the battles. We’ve seen a lot of things. And mentors, sponsors, mentors, that mentors especially are there to share that knowledge and those experiences so that you are getting that information and can take that shared knowledge to better yourself. So when you’re walking into the room, while you didn’t have that experience, you’ve got a little nudge Get in your head of somebody else’s experience and how it might go. And if you’re not going to do the work, if you’re not going to show up, if you’re not going to practice and do all of these things, then it’s that you’re wasting that mentors time as well.

Eugina Jordan 35:21
Boom, Mic drop.

Anne B 35:24
So not only have you wasted yours, you’ve wasted theirs, and you’ve taken away from somebody else who was willing to do the work. Gina, if there was one reason, and and everyone just so you know, we are going to have a link to our store that has this book, because we are everybody at unexpected journey and ethos. We love this book, and we encourage you to get it. So we’re gonna have a link to our store so that you can get this book too. But if there’s one reason if there’s one thing that you’re like, This is why I would encourage anybody to get it. What would that reason be?

Eugina Jordan 36:12
I’m gonna use a LinkedIn DM that was sent to me by young lady. I donate a lot of my books to nonprofits and organizations that help people like us become leaders. I ship them all over the world. From you, UK, to Romania to every single, like I think it’s already traveled to 25 states in the US and made it to Canada. And one Diem that came to me from a young lady that got it through one of those nonprofits, I think it was in Boston. She said, Thank you for writing this book. What I noticed is I speak up for myself at work more. The this book gave her strength to find and use her voice, and that’s a big deal.

Anne B 37:16
So if you are struggling to find your voice, and to use your voice, no matter who you are. Follow, go to our store, get this book. And you Gina, I’m gonna toss this out there because I think that you’re going to be okay with it. Reach out to you Gina. As she said she mentors a ton of individuals. So you Dana, how how would someone reach out to you?

Eugina Jordan 37:53
They can find me on our platform of their choice, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter. Also on my website, Eugene Jordan, there is a form. So if you’re on any of those platforms, social platforms, you can find me if you don’t have so a social platform, but you have access to the internet, you can send me a message via my website.

Anne B 38:22
And all of those have been noted below in addition to your Gina’s Direct website, which as she said, has a form that you can go directly to her. And Gina, thank you so much for coming on the show. It is always a joy and a pleasure talking to you. And this time, we just did it in a public setting. So it was great, and I really appreciate it.

Eugina Jordan 38:50
I love the Thank you. Thank you so so very much for having me.

Anne B 38:55
Absolutely. And thank you everyone for joining us and we will see you again next time. As we wrap up the episode we would like to take this time to thank you for joining us this week on Unexpected Journey. Our guest information will be linked in the episode description along with a link to our host’s website, and our sponsors’ websites,,, and Please don’t forget to like, subscribe and share on your favorite podcast app and on our YouTube channel so that you never miss an episode and we can continue to bring them to you. Let us know your thoughts on what we discussed in the comment section. And once again, thanks for joining us. We hope to see you again next time on Unexpected Journey.

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