Dethra Giles 0:00
If you are training DEI, your unconscious biases don’t just result in an action. They can result in an unintentional inaction.

Anne Bibb 0:07

Welcome to unexpected journey, the show where each week top professionals share work wisdom and life lessons about their careers and what they have learned about human experience in the workplace. I’m your host, Anne Bibb. Today I am so excited to have Dethra Giles is CEO of Executive Prep. She’s a DEI professor, and a four time TEDx speaker, a consultant and it just an overall badass, she has made it her life’s mission to share her formula of success. And I am so honored. We are so honored to have her here today. Before we begin, don’t forget to subscribe and leave your comments below. Now let’s get started. Welcome Dethra.

Dethra Giles 0:56
Thank you. Thank you. It’s great to be here with you today.

Anne Bibb 0:59
So we are, I’ve got so many things I want to talk to you about. And I just, I don’t even know where to start. So let’s just start at the beginning. And talk about you know, how in the world did you get to four times TEDx, how did you get here?

Dethra Giles 1:19
So the first time it was kind of a fluke, it was one of those things where someone sent my name somewhere, I got a call and said, Do you want to do this and who says no to TEDx? So I said, Absolutely. And I am a firm believer in when something when you get an opportunity, you knock it out of the park, like don’t play with it, don’t fool around, like knocked out the park. And I did I did that got a call to do another one. Another one I actually applied to. And then a fourth one was a combination, someone’s that I know someone who’s doing a TEDx, they need a good speaker, I’m going to give them your name, but can you send them something. So it’s crazy. But all four of them, I got four different ways.

Anne Bibb 2:05
So many individuals, I know some speakers, they’re like the goal that’s like the golden. That’s where they want to be is to be just to get that one time.

Dethra Giles 2:19
You know, I’ve coached a few people to get their TEDx talk. So three of the people that I’ve coached, actually have gotten TEDx talks. And it’s a process that I’ve kind of figured out, but please don’t call me about coaching. You didn’t TEDx that is not really what I do.

Anne Bibb 2:36
I can’t do it. But don’t call me I’m not helping you.

Dethra Giles 2:39
Before my phone blows up with people calling when it comes to get TEDx talk, that is not what I do. I just, I just do know how to do it and have been able to help a few people get theirs. But it is there is a secret sauce and a formula to getting it and, and it’s funny that I say that because my big thing is around formulas. I feel like we don’t lean on formulas. Enough everyone is kind of have these esoteric ideas about how you do things. And the reality is, everything has a formula. So if you can get the formula, you can have an easier path to doing just about anything, the job is figuring out what that formula is.

Anne Bibb 3:20
So if coaching people to get into TEDx is not your lane, what is your lane?

Dethra Giles 3:29
So you know, my real lane is performance optimization. And via that I have really carved the lane and the diversity, equity and inclusion space and speaker development space. And it was an people know me for being in Dei. But what they don’t know is that the I tried to avoid being in Dei. Why? Yeah, I really did. Because I felt like it was a place that was carved out for minorities. And it was a position that did not have a lot of power. And it still doesn’t Many organizations have a parent supportive Dei, but no real support. You go to many organizations, and dei has no budget, no influence, no power, no real authority. And I want it to have a larger impact. But what really happened was I went into organizations and said, Hey, my expertise, my calling is to optimize the performance of people, which will ultimately change the trajectory of this organization. I began to realize as I really optimize the performance of these companies, or teams or divisions or departments, there was a group of people that were consistently overlooked, that could optimize the performance of the team. And it was historically these marginalized communities, minorities, women, differently abled people LGBTQIA plus community members I started saying how can I honestly go into organizations with integrity and say I’m optimizing your performance without pointing out that they are consistently overlooking this group of people that really should be optimized and can change how this organization works. And so I couldn’t with integrity continue to say, I optimize the performance of companies without really going head on when Dei,

Anne Bibb 5:29
you mentioned a couple of things there, and I want to target a few of them. One of them is about the actual leadership in di and why do you think it is that there aren’t more minority leaders that are over dei in organizations, because I see a lot of white men, a lot of white women that are the head of di,

Dethra Giles 5:55
it’s mainly because people only appreciate diversity that they’re comfortable with. And we will often have these, these these statements about diversity, and all these other things. But we really only want comfortable diversity. And so let’s say for example, if a white man is leading an organization, diversity would include white women, but who is he probably most comfortable with? His mom’s probably a white woman, his wife, if he’s married to a woman is probably a white woman, his daughter’s a white woman, his grandma, auntie, every person that he’s surrounded by that happens to be female, or identifies as female is probably a white woman. And so that’s a comfortable diversity for him. So forgot to do this thing. I want to make it comfortable for me, we aren’t comfortable getting outside of that comfort zone. And people of color would be outside of that comfort zone. And so I’ve checked the box, I have a diverse candidate, not like me, it’s a woman, I have a diverse candidate, not like me. You know what he may be an LGBTQIA Plus member, but he’s a white man. So that makes me a little bit more comfortable. And so we have to be mindful that diversity is about getting out of our comfort zone. And why you see what you just said is because that still a little bit of comfort.

Anne Bibb 7:18
Do you think that’s why it’s so hard to get a DEI strategy in organizations?

Dethra Giles 7:25
Absolutely. And part of it is you recognize where the real dei concerned organizations are versus those that are not. I can walk into an organization and tell you if they really care about the DEI or not based on whether they have a DEI strategy, based on who’s leading the DEI, did you get someone who has a dei background, versus saying, Oh, we got caught with our pants down, we need a chief diversity officer, let’s pick someone from a department and put them over Dei, and you gave them no education, no real support, didn’t hire any consultants to come in and develop a strategy or get them trained up. You just pluck someone from somewhere, put them over d because they were a diverse candidate. It shows when organizations don’t really care about Dei. And so when you walk in and say, what’s your strategy? And they say things like, oh, you know what, we have unconscious bias training. And we celebrate Black History Month, Women’s History Month, Latino history month, we celebrate all the months and all the days. That sounds really good. But that’s not a strategy. And it’s not because they don’t know what strategy is. They have a strategy for the company. They have a strategy for software implementation. They have a strategy for new accounting systems. But they forget what strategy is when it comes to diversity, equity and inclusion. It speaks volumes

Anne Bibb 8:58
they held at an unconscious bias training. But oh, wait, let’s not forget, they held an unconscious bias training. They have 20 different holidays and paid days off. But that’s not inclusive.

Dethra Giles 9:18
And and here, I’ll give you one more that makes companies think they’re inclusive. Guess what we we had we hired a Chief Diversity Officer that mind you has no budget and does not report to someone that has the influence to change policy. Oh, we celebrate all of the holidays and the days of or months of whomever and we also brought an unconscious bias and Dethra we’re like the other organizations because like guess what else we have? We have ERGs Employee Resource Groups where people can go and have these conversations and feel safe and And the reality is those ERG conversations are nothing but conversations, there is no way for those conversations to translate into actions and policies within your organization, you have not created a mechanism to do that. And so again, we’re back at this is a parent care, not actual care.

Anne Bibb 10:21
One of the things you said was the group creating the DEI strategy. I’ve seen this too, where a small group was selected, because they were of the diverse category, you know, essentially pulling together, picking the diverse individuals and saying, I’m going, I need you to help us build a dei strategy. And,

Dethra Giles 10:53
and here’s the problem, and that speaks volumes. And so many organizations do that, they will say, well, Dutra, we had, we’ve created a Diversity Council within our organization and brought all these diverse members together. And this is how we came up with this. And my statement is always okay, that sounds wonderful. So what training do these people have in one? Stretch strategy development? When Have they ever been a part of a developing a strategic plan? That’s number one. Number two, what training have they had on diversity and diverse issues? Because we’re not going to an organization? I’m not just concerned from a Dr. perspective about what happens with their black women, heterosexual population, I’m concerned about Wait a minute, what’s happening with your employees that are over 50? What’s happening with your LGBTQIA? Plus, what’s why? Why do you have this person on the third floor and you’re not wheelchair accessible? I’m because I’m training the EI, I’m looking beyond just my dimension of diversity. And what they’re assuming is because, oh, you have a dimension of diversity, that now makes you an expert in diversity. And it does not. If you aren’t training Dei, your unconscious biases don’t just result in an action. They can result in an unintentional inaction

Anne Bibb 12:28
and intentional inaction that oh, my gosh, say it louder for the people in the back. Because unintentional, or inaction is just as bad as unconscious bias.

Dethra Giles 12:41
It can be just and your unconscious unconscious bias can cause the unintentional inaction like I you know, recently I put up a post, and people went crazy. But I talked about the OXImeters that were used during COVID on to measure the oxygenation levels in your blood, or oxygen saturation in your blood. And what the studies are very, very recent study that came out show was that they gave false readings for darker skin. So black people, darker Latinos, study. Yes. So here’s what that means. Remember, back when COVID was happening, there was this mystery? Why is this this virus having such a horrible impact on these black communities? Why is this happening? Well, what they found out now is that the reading show that the lungs were working better than they actually were. And so treatment that would have been given for lungs that were not working well weren’t given, because the meter showed that the lungs are working. People will say, how is that an unconscious bias? How does that relate to systemic or institutional racism? Well, here’s the gotcha. Do you know how long we’ve known that lasers and light have a different refraction on darker skin, the people developing that know that information, and still overlook this as a potential problem and measuring the oxygen saturation with this meter. They did not take that into account when building or testing and because they had an unintentional overlook. It had life threatening life ending impacts on people. And that’s what happens when you have this unconscious bias. And those are the things that you need someone trained to think about it.

Anne Bibb 14:37
It’s not just in the medical industry. It happens in the workplace every single day, and it impacts people’s jobs. Absolutely. And it impacts livelihoods and it impacts so much whether it’s unconscious bias or unintentional or intentional inaction. I think it’s important to recognize what the impacts

Anne Bibb 15:04
of that could be on other people and your business.

Dethra Giles 15:07
Yeah, and but sometimes we have. And that’s why it’s so important that when you do this stuff that you bring someone in, who is more in tune with this stuff, and which is why I was screaming my head off. And all of these Dei, people showed up, all of a sudden, when dei became sexy, because I’m like they are their antenna is not formed yet. And the reason that’s so important is because it’s like, if you see something, you don’t even see it. Think about how many times you drive home. And if you really start to think about it, did you really see if the light was green, the light is always green, you’re on autopilot. And we’re the same way at work. We’re on autopilot. So there are so many things happening around us that our antenna is not in tune to our antenna is not in tune to say, You know what, Hey, I’ve been in I’ve been in tech for 15 years, or 20 years, 20 years ago, there were no minorities and women in tech. So if I got a slate of all white men, it wasn’t a shocker. Because the reality was at that time, that actually was all that was who was in tech. But my blinders are on. So now today, because I’ve been doing this for so long. And I get a slate of all white men. I don’t question. I don’t even see it, because that’s what I’ve always gotten. But now there needs to be someone in place that says, hey, my antennas up. Do you know how many minorities and women are in tech now? We should not not enough. A slight right? Yes, still not enough. But which you should not feel comfortable anymore getting a full slate of candidates for this tech position. And not a single, minority, or woman in this pool?

Anne Bibb 17:05
A good example, I think and tell me if you agree or disagree with this, of course, you’re having a conversation with somebody, the next day, I say, hey, Detra. Remember, I said this to you yesterday? And you’re like you did not? I? Yes, we sat in your office? Well, I remember the conversation. But I don’t remember you saying this, to me. That is a great example of at least in my thought of, you know, driving through the red light on autopilot. But in a workplace scenario, because we sit in each other’s office or on a zoom or in meetings, and we’re having these regular conversations, but we’re communicating so much data and information that sometimes you completely overlook the fact that one sentence was said,

Dethra Giles 17:51
That’s great example, where someone will say, Oh, I remember you saying that was a problem. But everybody has problems in the office. And I moved on, as opposed to listening to wait a minute to pick up on those cues. Okay, this same scenario happened with someone else. And there were no issues. The only different thing right now are these few factors. We need to see what those few factors mean. Because that’s, that’s concerning.

Anne Bibb 18:18
Now, here’s the other piece of this that I want to want you to hear your opinion on. It’s all fine and good. Have a DEI trained individual, they recognize the patterns. They start putting it together. Bring it to Dethra. I am your D E. I am your chief diversity officer. I have put this pattern together. I think we have a problem with Sallie Mae and she is doing all of this and Dethra. You go off.

Anne Bibb 18:52
Sallie Mae is a good person. I’ve known him forever. Like, I brought her into this organization. She’s worked with me at three other places. Don’t worry about it.

Dethra Giles 19:03
That happens way more than you know. And that’s why I said it’s so important that when you talk about being in dei there, there are there are organizations that I will not consult with. There are organizations that I will flat out turns out because I don’t have an appreciation for apparent di and it’s things like that, oh, well, everyone is touchable except this person, either we’re doing this or we are not an I Am Not Your consultant if we are not doing this, or how

Anne Bibb 19:35
about this one. Oh, but they are a Oh, yeah. Oh, they’re a minority. So surely they didn’t mean it.

Dethra Giles 19:44
And and and the funny thing about that is, which is why I say it’s so important that we have people who are truly chanting the EI because there’s hatred within groups all the time. There are people who are over group but hate other members of that group. And so people act as if Oh my gosh, well, you know what, they’re gay, too. They could never, there are a bunch of gay people who don’t want other gay people just because they’re gay. There are a bunch of white people who don’t want other white people just because they’re white. They’re a bunch of black people who don’t like other black people just because they’re black. There. There is hatred within groups all of the time.

Anne Bibb 20:24
Why does dei actually data along those lines? Right, like, what does di actually include?

Dethra Giles 20:31
D. And here’s that. I love that question. Because people think dei is only for one group. It is called diversity. Not diversity for every one is a member of that group. And so that’s the diverse part. When we talk about inclusion, what we’re saying is, every one voice needs to be included. And well, people will say, Well, what what’s going on with white men right now? Nothing. What we’re trying to do is get the voices to the table. Right? No one is trying to exclude you, no one is trying to knock you off the face of the earth. No one is trying to get rid of white men’s voices. What we’re saying is historically, you have been the soloist in this what should be a choir. And what we’re now saying is, hey, come back here and join the choir. We don’t want a soloist, we want a choir. And it feels uncomfortable for the person who’s always had a solo to now be a part of the choir. And now you feel like you’re putting me out the choir? No, actually, we’re trying to make you a part of the choir.

Dethra Giles 21:40
That is such an amazing, and now Gee, I love it. What a beautiful way to help everybody understand that we are not trying to be excluding you, we actually want you to be part of the group, you have excluded yourself for so long, you don’t recognize we’re trying to pull you in baby come on.

Dethra Giles 22:08
But it’s uncomfortable. Because here’s the deal. Everyone loves having the solo, it feels good to be out front. It feels good to control the choir, it feels good to be the person that determines when we take it up an octave. And when the song ends, because I don’t care what the choir director does. If that soloist keep singing, we are all still singing. And it doesn’t. It feels like you’re taking something away. When you say you, we want a choir and not we don’t want to be your backup anymore.

Anne Bibb 22:40
That’s very true. I understand that as well. Because everybody, I mean, thinking back to middle school, right? Everybody wanted to win the solo?

Dethra Giles 22:50
Absolutely. You want because you get to you get to be the norm. Like everybody’s looking at you. It’s all about you. And so I I can understand the discomfort and displeasure and the feeling that something is being taken away.

Anne Bibb 23:06
So how do we help that soloist understand and feel like it’s not being taken away?

Dethra Giles 23:13
Two things. One, we have to acknowledge that some people will never accept that something’s not being taken away. And I think we spend our time beating our heads against the wall, because we want to believe that we can change everyone’s mind. And you can’t, I think we have to find the coalition of the willing. And just

Anne Bibb 23:33
follow great little snips today. I love it.

Dethra Giles 23:38
The Coalition of the Willing and bring them along and everyone else, we have to leave them where they are. But if we get the coalition of the willing to come along, and we have this amazing choir, guess what, you’ll be singing a solo by yourself, you will not have backup.

Anne Bibb 23:51
Can we just get a mic drop, like right here? Like I got, I got more questions. If I could end it right here and give you a mic drop. I would but we’re not done. We are not done. One of the things that you speak frequently about is imposter syndrome. And that is something that’s near and dear and close to my heart because I know a lot of people that this is a pretty serious affliction of. And so why don’t we have a conversation? What is first of all, what is impostor syndrome?

Dethra Giles 24:29
So I talk about impostor syndrome, but I often talk about it with a different lens than everyone else talks about impostor syndrome. So very simply, and very high level. Simply put, it’s when you feel like an imposter. You probably have all the skills, experience, education, you need to do something. You just feel you don’t feel like you’re adequate. So you feel like when I get in there, I’m pretending and everyone has got to figure out that I’m pretending to know what I’m doing. But the reality is, I feel like an imposter. I don’t feel I not confident in myself enough to feel to step in boldly into what I’m supposed to be doing. So that’s very high level. The part for me is, I love the term, but I. So I have a love hate relationship with the term. And let me tell you why. I feel like we label things imposter syndrome, when organizations have actually created imposters. And the reason the distinction is is important for me is because people that we’ve made imposters we tell them, they have imposter syndrome, which puts the onus of fixing the problem on them, versus the people who created it. Now impostor syndrome is a very real thing I have had it I’ve, I’ve gone to speak, and saw another speaker HIT THE STAGE who was amazing. And I was like, Oh, my gosh, I’ll give you another great example of personally. So in a couple of weeks, I’ll be in DC, and I’m speaking at this conference. So before I speak, Valerie Jarrett will speak so literally Valerie Jarrett. There’s a break. And then I’m speaking the Valerie Jarrett, like White House Obama, Valerie Jarrett, is speaking, a 15 minute break than I speak. Then there’s another break and then Condoleezza Rice speaks. Do I have impostor syndrome around that Absafreakinglutely? Do I know that I am a phenomenal speaker absofreakinlutely do I know I will rock the house absofreakinlutely. Do I know I am trained skill I teach other people I have written speeches for high level executives and government officials and train them on how to speak? Absolutely. Do I know in theory that I can hold my own with these two women, despite them having been at such levels in government and business and all that? Absolutely. Do I have a little bit of impostor syndrome like, oh my gosh, am I at a level in my career where I can be on the same stage as these women? So yes, I’m asking myself that question. But the reality is, I’m not an imposter. So that’s impostor syndrome, because I do have the skill set to be on the stage with them. So that is imposter syndrome. Here’s the flip side, the flip side would be Valerie Jarrett speaking before me, Condoleezza Rice speaking after me. But no one has ever put me on a big stage before. I’ve never spoken in front of a large audience. I don’t have a refined topic. Now I have a great speaking voice. But my skill and ability as a speaker has not been fine tuned. And then someone says, Dethra, we’re going to have you speak in that slot. And when I say, am I enough to speak in that spot? They say you have imposter syndrome. No, I don’t. You’ve created an impostor and made the responsibility to fix it on me. So organizations do this all the time, they get caught with their pants down, or we have no minorities or women in leadership. As soon as a position opens, oh, you know, what, and has been doing this job for years, promote her and gets there. It’s like, wait a minute, I don’t have the proper networks to do this job. Well, I don’t have the proper budget to do this job. Well, I haven’t been mentored to do this job. I haven’t been a part of any succession planning. I haven’t even had the training in leadership to be a sufficient and adequate leader. I don’t have impostor syndrome, you all created an impostor and asked me to take onus for that responsibility. And it’s not mine.

Anne Bibb 28:51
So in that scenario, I love that you’re pointing this out, because I’ve seen several situations of that. But in that scenario, when they let that individual go, because that imposter is not performing well. What happens?

Dethra Giles 29:10
What happens is what they say, and I’ve seen this too many times, we tried it, we promoted a woman, it didn’t work. We promoted a minority, we put a black person in that position. It didn’t work, instead of saying, Hey, was that person properly prepared? And and when I’m in the position, I often ask the question, I’ve been the person that other people were so angry with, why would you not let them promote this black person to position and I will say I am but right now I want this person to stay where they are. And I’m going to get the resources to develop them so that when the position opens the next time they’re ready, but right now if I allow them to put them in the position, they will fail they will lose their job and then They will be a mark on everybody after them. And this is where that dei strategy comes in. Hey, we know that in the next five years, these positions will open up. What are we doing to train our hyper hypose? Our high performer high potential employees, so that when the position opens up, they’re ready? And how are we formalizing that for just about everyone in the organization, and not just the people, you the leader has tapped because the leaders will tap people. And oftentimes they aren’t these people will get overlooked. And so I as a leader, I’m already in mind of someone that I’m training, I mentoring for that position, they’re ready, the person who we make an imposter, no one’s tap them. No one’s identified them as a next in line for their position until the position opens, and we realize, oh, my gosh, you’ve overlooked this person five times, we got to give it to him this time.

Anne Bibb 30:57
So if you are that individual that is being approached to be promoted into that position, but you feel like you’re not ready. And maybe you’re being set up. How do you handle that?

Dethra Giles 31:14
Number one, listen to me and listen to me carefully. You take it, but with stipulations, I actually helped a client, a recent client work through this. She said, Deidre, I know, I’m not ready. And I said, you absolutely are not. And she said, Do I decline that position that say, Have you lost your DAG on my taking this position, but you’re going to go back to them and say, here’s the reality, I want the position. But I am very clear that you all have not properly trained me to step into the position, here are the things that I need. And here’s the timeline I need, if you can guarantee me these things that I’ll take the position.

Anne Bibb 31:52
So you have a book coming out? Yes.

Dethra Giles 31:56
Oh my god. So I’m currently working on a couple of books, my posts, like pick a book to work on. But Breaking Good Habits is probably going to be the next book that comes out. And I’m really, really excited about it. Because it’s been in my head for so long, so long,

Anne Bibb 32:17
but breaking good habits. What is? I mean, obviously, it’s a title. But can you tell us a little bit about it?

Dethra Giles 32:24
Yes. So people, when I say the title, everyone thinks I’ve made a mistake. And they will say, did you say good habits or bad habits, and I will say good habits, and where it came from. I am the mad scientist that tried all of the experiments on myself first. And then on clients. What often happens is the biggest barrier I have in getting my clients from where they are to where they want to be, whether it’s individuals or organizations is their past successes. And it’s hard to tell someone that what used to work no longer works for me, because I The example I often give is Usain Bolt, fastest man in the world sprinter. And it will be very difficult for me to tell Usain Bolt that he doesn’t know how to run, especially if I’m training him to run marathons. Because if he ran a marathon the way he Sprint’s he would literally die, he would, he would die, he couldn’t last that long. So I would have to retrain him, but his good habits will be the very thing that destroy him as a marathon runner. And that’s what we often see when people transition from one place the next. So what made you a great entry level employee will take your career as a leader. And so until we break some of those good habits, we cannot achieve our next level of success.

Anne Bibb 33:48
I did want to ask you, what your advice for people that are listening on how to be their authentic self in the workplace. So we have a wide range of listeners, men and women 25 to 55 is our average span. So it’s a pretty wide range. And that indicates that, you know, we’ve got everybody from management all the way up to C suite people in corporate people on their own. So it’s a very eclectic group of listeners that we have, yeah. But for that individual that is wanting to be their authentic self. Talk to them right now. What is your advice to them?

Dethra Giles 34:28
I will say you have to first become comfortable with yourself. People will often say I want to be my authentic self. And what they’re really saying is I’m not comfortable enough with who I am to show other people that person and so the first step is becoming comfortable with who you are, then it’s allowing other people in at a safe pace for you. For me, when I decided I was going to show up as my authentic self, I was like I am not easing you all into anything. When You’re just jumping in full face for bullying, I should have to work in a yellow suit home. So, but you have to ease people in at your level of comfort. And here’s the thing that I really want people to know about being your authentic self. being your authentic self, does not mean being your quote unquote, full self for every one 100% of the time, there are pieces of you that every one does not deserve, or have a right to the luxury of. And so just because there’s a piece that I’ve reserved for myself, and for my family, and for my close friends, it does not mean that I am not being my authentic self. So authenticity is about you being comfortable with yourself and you regulating what you want to share about you based on what you want, not based on what you think they think you should be.

Anne Bibb 35:54
That is some some pretty healthy and strong advice. And why would somebody get in touch with you? And how would somebody get in touch with you.

Dethra Giles 36:04
So why for a couple of things, one, if you are looking for an absolutely amazing speaker, for your next conference retreat, leadership, development, any of that you will get in touch with me to be your keynote speaker. Also, if you’re interested in having some consulting around performance optimization at your organization, or some work around leadership development and diversity, equity inclusion, if you want to get in touch with me, you can always find us at our website, exec uprep.com. And that’s e xecuprep.com. That links below yeh and our social media is Dethra Giles, so on Instagram, Dethra, underscore Giles, everywhere else, I’m just Dethra Giles like LinkedIn, or just a simple email info at execuprep.com. And you can get in touch with me.

Dethra Giles 37:02
And all those links, you saw them pop up on the screen. And they will be in the, at least those of you that are watching on YouTube, if you’re just listening, you’re out of luck, but we will be putting those in the description below.

Anne Bibb 37:16
Thank you again. Dethra. so blessed to have you in my network, and to have you as part of as part of my journey and I’m really grateful that you are here today on the show.

Dethra Giles 37:29
Thank you. It has been my absolute pleasure. This was so much fun.

Anne Bibb 37:33
And for everybody else. We will see you again next week on Unexpected Journey.

Dethra Giles 37:38
As we wrap the episode up, we would like to take this time to thank you for joining us this week on unexpected journey. Our guests information will be linked in the episode description along with a link to our company website, remote evolution.com and our hosts website Anne bibb.com. Please don’t forget to like subscribe and share on your favorite podcast app and on our YouTube channel so that you never miss an episode and we can continue to bring them to you. Let us know your thoughts on what we discussed in the comment section. And once again, thank you for joining us. We

Anne Bibb 38:11
hope to see you again next week for another episode of Unexpected Journey.